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	<title>Comments on: We Have Reached a Tipping Point</title>
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		<title>By: The Back Story to the Great Commission Resurgence &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-824</link>
		<dc:creator>The Back Story to the Great Commission Resurgence &#171; Provocations &#38; Pantings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/#comment-824</guid>
		<description>[...] We Have Reached a Tipping Point by Alvin Reid [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We Have Reached a Tipping Point by Alvin Reid [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Cleveland</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Cleveland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/#comment-164</guid>
		<description>I know the bible&#039;s statement that without vision, the people perish, may apply to vision as to the future. But perhaps it also applies to the ability to see what&#039;s happening right now. 

I think your vision of the tipping point it right on, and can only hope enough others see it to know some things need to change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know the bible&#8217;s statement that without vision, the people perish, may apply to vision as to the future. But perhaps it also applies to the ability to see what&#8217;s happening right now. </p>
<p>I think your vision of the tipping point it right on, and can only hope enough others see it to know some things need to change.</p>
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		<title>By: Hurricane Force &#171; Ponder Anew</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>Hurricane Force &#171; Ponder Anew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/#comment-146</guid>
		<description>[...] Alvin Reid wrote a few weeks ago that he felt the SBC had reached a tipping point.  That our churches and our convention have reached a point from which there is no return.  The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Alvin Reid wrote a few weeks ago that he felt the SBC had reached a tipping point.  That our churches and our convention have reached a point from which there is no return.  The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alvin Reid</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Alvin Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 13:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments all. Brad, I would say that we have made great progress in an attitudinal change in recent days.  Nathan Finn and I wrote a series of articles on this very topic recently here at BtT.  We do not see Calvinism as the thing that will destroy us so long as all of us rally for the Great Commission in a spirit of humility.  

The responses I have received since this article and an earlier one I wrote called &quot;I have a problem&quot; have been remarkable. Over 600 personal responses, only one negative.  Not a scientific poll, but a demonstration of the fact that we are a convention ready to set aside some things for the main thing.  And at the same time, we can disagree agreeably on issues.  That makes for a healthy SBC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments all. Brad, I would say that we have made great progress in an attitudinal change in recent days.  Nathan Finn and I wrote a series of articles on this very topic recently here at BtT.  We do not see Calvinism as the thing that will destroy us so long as all of us rally for the Great Commission in a spirit of humility.  </p>
<p>The responses I have received since this article and an earlier one I wrote called &#8220;I have a problem&#8221; have been remarkable. Over 600 personal responses, only one negative.  Not a scientific poll, but a demonstration of the fact that we are a convention ready to set aside some things for the main thing.  And at the same time, we can disagree agreeably on issues.  That makes for a healthy SBC.</p>
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		<title>By: Thanks for the TIP, but what&#8217;s the POINT? &#124; Southern Baptist Blogs - SBC Voices</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Thanks for the TIP, but what&#8217;s the POINT? &#124; Southern Baptist Blogs - SBC Voices</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/#comment-40</guid>
		<description>[...] post is a response to &#8220;We Have Reached A Tipping Point&#8221; by Dr. Alvin Reid as posted (here, here, here, &amp; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post is a response to &#8220;We Have Reached A Tipping Point&#8221; by Dr. Alvin Reid as posted (here, here, here, &amp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Jones</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 05:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Dr. Reid,

I&#039;m a young pastor in California that has tried to be involved and has encouraged cooperation at the local and state level. I would love to go to the national meeting this summer, but wonder if traveling all the way to KY is the best stewardship of our church&#039;s limited resources. I&#039;m sure many other pastors of small churches are wrestling through this too. Any thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Reid,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a young pastor in California that has tried to be involved and has encouraged cooperation at the local and state level. I would love to go to the national meeting this summer, but wonder if traveling all the way to KY is the best stewardship of our church&#8217;s limited resources. I&#8217;m sure many other pastors of small churches are wrestling through this too. Any thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Robb</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Robb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Dr. Reid,
Thank you for the insightful and inspiring thoughts. As one of those debtors (received Christ at an SBC VBS, attended a Baptist-affiliated college and Southern Seminary, and having served since I was 18 in SBC churches) I dearly want to see our Convention become relevant for another generation or two. The key is the Great Commission focus you talked about, and a return to showing liberty in those secondary areas. 
I&#039;m at risk of simply repeating what you said, so &quot;Amen&quot; and I&#039;m looking forward to Louisville!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Reid,<br />
Thank you for the insightful and inspiring thoughts. As one of those debtors (received Christ at an SBC VBS, attended a Baptist-affiliated college and Southern Seminary, and having served since I was 18 in SBC churches) I dearly want to see our Convention become relevant for another generation or two. The key is the Great Commission focus you talked about, and a return to showing liberty in those secondary areas.<br />
I&#8217;m at risk of simply repeating what you said, so &#8220;Amen&#8221; and I&#8217;m looking forward to Louisville!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Wethington</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Wethington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 01:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Great post Dr. Reid.  Thank you for your honesty and transparency.  Your statement that I have included below, in my opinion, answers the question.

&quot;If we are so committed to the Word of God and the gospel, why are we so ineffective at living and preaching it? Why are there so few great expositors?&quot;

We believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God and that it is without error but we don&#039;t believe that it is sufficient.  If we did our preaching and teaching would look and sound entirely different.  If we did believe the Gospel is sufficient we would commit to the expositional preaching and teaching of scripture, as a rule of thumb, and bypass the &#039;self-help&#039;, &#039;be a better you&#039; &#039;me centered gospel&#039; that is prevalent in America&#039;s pulpits.   

Keep up the good work and great posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Dr. Reid.  Thank you for your honesty and transparency.  Your statement that I have included below, in my opinion, answers the question.</p>
<p>&#8220;If we are so committed to the Word of God and the gospel, why are we so ineffective at living and preaching it? Why are there so few great expositors?&#8221;</p>
<p>We believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God and that it is without error but we don&#8217;t believe that it is sufficient.  If we did our preaching and teaching would look and sound entirely different.  If we did believe the Gospel is sufficient we would commit to the expositional preaching and teaching of scripture, as a rule of thumb, and bypass the &#8217;self-help&#8217;, &#8216;be a better you&#8217; &#8216;me centered gospel&#8217; that is prevalent in America&#8217;s pulpits.   </p>
<p>Keep up the good work and great posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Dr. Reid,

As a young pastor in an SBC church and graduate of a SBC school, I greatly appreciate your assessment and three areas. I think you&#039;re right that we&#039;re nearing if not already at a tipping point. (For what it&#039;s worth, I also think we need an &quot;alarmist&quot; so that no more time and money is unnecessarily spent.) But I would add one obvious area to your list - Calvinism.

It seems clear to me that the SBC is polarized enough on the issue of Calvinism that it would be really hard to go forward with change when there is fundamental difference on issues so clearly related to the Gospel. In other words, how do we consolidate our efforts around evangelism, national and international church planting, and pastoral training when we disagree on theological issues directly related to those efforts?

Unfortunately, the reality is that we don&#039;t just disagree on how we ought to relate to others outside ourselves, i.e., non-SBCers and the culture. We also disagree on deep theological issues that, I believe, are near the heart of the Gospel.

One final note, the nice thing about the Baptist Faith &amp; Message is that it offers theological latitude allowing strict and not-so-strict Calvinist, e.g., Mohler and Vines, to be in cooperation with one another. Thus, it comes down to a matter of attitude toward one another.

Thanks,
Brad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Reid,</p>
<p>As a young pastor in an SBC church and graduate of a SBC school, I greatly appreciate your assessment and three areas. I think you&#8217;re right that we&#8217;re nearing if not already at a tipping point. (For what it&#8217;s worth, I also think we need an &#8220;alarmist&#8221; so that no more time and money is unnecessarily spent.) But I would add one obvious area to your list &#8211; Calvinism.</p>
<p>It seems clear to me that the SBC is polarized enough on the issue of Calvinism that it would be really hard to go forward with change when there is fundamental difference on issues so clearly related to the Gospel. In other words, how do we consolidate our efforts around evangelism, national and international church planting, and pastoral training when we disagree on theological issues directly related to those efforts?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the reality is that we don&#8217;t just disagree on how we ought to relate to others outside ourselves, i.e., non-SBCers and the culture. We also disagree on deep theological issues that, I believe, are near the heart of the Gospel.</p>
<p>One final note, the nice thing about the Baptist Faith &amp; Message is that it offers theological latitude allowing strict and not-so-strict Calvinist, e.g., Mohler and Vines, to be in cooperation with one another. Thus, it comes down to a matter of attitude toward one another.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Brad</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Brister</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Brister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 03:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/04/02/we-have-reached-a-tipping-point/#comment-26</guid>
		<description>I just want to go on record thanking you for (1) allowing comments and (2) allowing paragraph breaks. :) 

Dr. Reid, you said:

&lt;i&gt;Recently, one of the most recognized leaders of our time commented that if the average Southern Baptist knew how every penny of their money was being spent, they too would want a revolution.&lt;/i&gt;

I unfortunately was one of the weirdos who took the time to figure out that state conventions for the year 2008 kept over $280 million for themselves.  How one gets their mind around that much money is one thing; getting your conscience around is all the more difficult, especially when we couch the Cooperative Program with a focus on missions. 

There are tangible realities that can be assessed through research, statistics, and cold, hard facts, and there are the intangible realities that can be felt by anyone who still has a heart for the future of the SBC.  What remains to be seen is whether the handwriting on the wall will renew our commitment to the missionary call.  I&#039;m a believer, not because of what I see but because God is painfully bringing us to brokenness and humility.  

May this tipping point turn our hearts to being dominated by God and desperate for His Spirit to transform our lives, our churches, and our world for the glory of Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to go on record thanking you for (1) allowing comments and (2) allowing paragraph breaks. <img src='http://betweenthetimes.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Dr. Reid, you said:</p>
<p><i>Recently, one of the most recognized leaders of our time commented that if the average Southern Baptist knew how every penny of their money was being spent, they too would want a revolution.</i></p>
<p>I unfortunately was one of the weirdos who took the time to figure out that state conventions for the year 2008 kept over $280 million for themselves.  How one gets their mind around that much money is one thing; getting your conscience around is all the more difficult, especially when we couch the Cooperative Program with a focus on missions. </p>
<p>There are tangible realities that can be assessed through research, statistics, and cold, hard facts, and there are the intangible realities that can be felt by anyone who still has a heart for the future of the SBC.  What remains to be seen is whether the handwriting on the wall will renew our commitment to the missionary call.  I&#8217;m a believer, not because of what I see but because God is painfully bringing us to brokenness and humility.  </p>
<p>May this tipping point turn our hearts to being dominated by God and desperate for His Spirit to transform our lives, our churches, and our world for the glory of Christ.</p>
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