Comments on: The Church Planter’s Library (2): North American Church Planting & Renewal http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/ Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:27:58 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Brandt Waggoner http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-1930 Brandt Waggoner Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:16:56 +0000 http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=910#comment-1930 Dr. Ashford, I echo the other guys who have been blessed with the opportunity to meet with you on Tuesday mornings. I really appreciate your willingness to take the time to invest in us. While I have not yet read many of the books you and others have recommended, I really enjoyed reading Total Church last semester. It was an eye-opener to me in realizing some aspects of a healthy church that are largely absent from many American churches. I am thankful for the focus on community within the church, and the chapter showing that we evangelize as we live lives together among the lost, centered around the message of the Gospel. This was a very compelling vision of the church. I would recomend that anyone not familiar with Dr. Hammett check out his books, and take his classes at SEBTS, you will not be dissapointed. Dever's books have been extremely helpful, and I think his 9 Marks have been one of the most important contributions to ecclesiology in recent history. If you want a brief introduction to Dever, read What is a Healthy Church? which is short but stout. I appreciate the recomendations and look forward to reading many on this list. Dr. Ashford,
I echo the other guys who have been blessed with the opportunity to meet with you on Tuesday mornings. I really appreciate your willingness to take the time to invest in us. While I have not yet read many of the books you and others have recommended, I really enjoyed reading Total Church last semester. It was an eye-opener to me in realizing some aspects of a healthy church that are largely absent from many American churches. I am thankful for the focus on community within the church, and the chapter showing that we evangelize as we live lives together among the lost, centered around the message of the Gospel. This was a very compelling vision of the church. I would recomend that anyone not familiar with Dr. Hammett check out his books, and take his classes at SEBTS, you will not be dissapointed. Dever’s books have been extremely helpful, and I think his 9 Marks have been one of the most important contributions to ecclesiology in recent history. If you want a brief introduction to Dever, read What is a Healthy Church? which is short but stout. I appreciate the recomendations and look forward to reading many on this list.

]]> By: Tanner Turley http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-1647 Tanner Turley Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:52:32 +0000 http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=910#comment-1647 Looking forward to picking up a couple these recommendations. For a biblical-theological treatment on why our churches should look more like the church in heaven, check out Bruce Milne's Dynamic Diversity: Bridging Class, Age, Race, and Gender in the Church. Also, Keller's article, "The Missional Church" is a very short but helpful read. You can find it here: http://www.redeemer2.com/resources/papers/missional.pdf It is also in their church planting manual. Looking forward to picking up a couple these recommendations. For a biblical-theological treatment on why our churches should look more like the church in heaven, check out Bruce Milne’s Dynamic Diversity: Bridging Class, Age, Race, and Gender in the Church. Also, Keller’s article, “The Missional Church” is a very short but helpful read. You can find it here: http://www.redeemer2.com/resources/papers/missional.pdf
It is also in their church planting manual.

]]> By: Sean Pyle http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-1636 Sean Pyle Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:18:50 +0000 http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=910#comment-1636 Tim Keller's Church Planter's Manual is the most beneficial book that I have read when it comes to church planting. Keller is a great thinker and leads the reader in a process that requires thought on how the church will be built and how to engage the culture. Keller also does a great job of offering categories without legalism as he realizes that ever context is different so though the Manual is geared towards church plants in New York, the manual is great for church planters in any context. Driscoll's Radical Reformission has also been very helpful in regards to engaging culture and he is one of the best at this. I would also recommend Confessions of a Reformission Rev. by Driscoll. This is a recap of his planting Mars Hill Church. This book is extremely beneficial because it helps the planter think through issues such as church government, preaching, how to manage growth, amongst other things. The most beneficial part of this book may be that it helps the reader see mistakes that have been made by another planter, which will help the reader avoid some mistakes. I, like my bros above, would also recommend Dr. Hammett's book because it extensively deals with Ecclesiology and forces one to think through that as he reads it. I would highly recommend reading this book, as all others, with great discernment. I would also highly recommend Total Church, Chester and Timmis are especially great when it comes to cultivating community. Lastly, it always helps to think through these things with other brothers, especially those who are wiser than you. Tyler Jones says that it is good to have someone to talk to or to mentor you that is roughly a few stages ahead of you in planting as well so that he can give you wisdom and insight to the decisions you are making. Thanks for these recommendations Dr. Ashford Tim Keller’s Church Planter’s Manual is the most beneficial book that I have read when it comes to church planting. Keller is a great thinker and leads the reader in a process that requires thought on how the church will be built and how to engage the culture. Keller also does a great job of offering categories without legalism as he realizes that ever context is different so though the Manual is geared towards church plants in New York, the manual is great for church planters in any context.

Driscoll’s Radical Reformission has also been very helpful in regards to engaging culture and he is one of the best at this. I would also recommend Confessions of a Reformission Rev. by Driscoll. This is a recap of his planting Mars Hill Church. This book is extremely beneficial because it helps the planter think through issues such as church government, preaching, how to manage growth, amongst other things. The most beneficial part of this book may be that it helps the reader see mistakes that have been made by another planter, which will help the reader avoid some mistakes.

I, like my bros above, would also recommend Dr. Hammett’s book because it extensively deals with Ecclesiology and forces one to think through that as he reads it. I would highly recommend reading this book, as all others, with great discernment.

I would also highly recommend Total Church, Chester and Timmis are especially great when it comes to cultivating community.

Lastly, it always helps to think through these things with other brothers, especially those who are wiser than you.

Tyler Jones says that it is good to have someone to talk to or to mentor you that is roughly a few stages ahead of you in planting as well so that he can give you wisdom and insight to the decisions you are making. Thanks for these recommendations Dr. Ashford

]]> By: Bruce Ashford http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-1432 Bruce Ashford Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:46:37 +0000 http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=910#comment-1432 Drew, I've got Reid and Liederbach on my "next to read" shelf. Joel Rainey, I'm honored that you weighed in on the discussion! You are right on target about Allen's Missionary Methods: St Pauls Or Ours? Great book. And yes, church planting (and serious church renewal) is the hope of North America. Nathan Akin, thanks for your comments, especially your thoughts on the church being God's vehicle for discipleship, mission, mercy ministries, etc. Drew, I’ve got Reid and Liederbach on my “next to read” shelf.

Joel Rainey, I’m honored that you weighed in on the discussion! You are right on target about Allen’s Missionary Methods: St Pauls Or Ours? Great book. And yes, church planting (and serious church renewal) is the hope of North America.

Nathan Akin, thanks for your comments, especially your thoughts on the church being God’s vehicle for discipleship, mission, mercy ministries, etc.

]]> By: Bruce Ashford http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-1431 Bruce Ashford Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:42:03 +0000 http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=910#comment-1431 Jay, great quote. Better to build healthy and a bit slower than fast and unhealthy. Cancer grows quickly but is undesireable growth... Josh Reed, Murray and Tozer are a reminder that godliness is at the heart of all that we do, church planting certainly not excepted. Let's not get caught up in the mechanics of CP and forget that it is Christ himself who builds his church through his spirit and his willing servants... Jay, great quote. Better to build healthy and a bit slower than fast and unhealthy. Cancer grows quickly but is undesireable growth…

Josh Reed, Murray and Tozer are a reminder that godliness is at the heart of all that we do, church planting certainly not excepted. Let’s not get caught up in the mechanics of CP and forget that it is Christ himself who builds his church through his spirit and his willing servants…

]]> By: Bruce Ashford http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-1430 Bruce Ashford Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:39:29 +0000 http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=910#comment-1430 Nathan, you're right on all three points. I recommend Mahaney's Humility and Piper's God is the Gospel, and CHBC's Weekenders are a great opportunity to be exposed to a church that seeks to be true to the biblical description of the church. Today, we were discussing the essays in Dever's "Polity" and were again reminded about how serious our Baptist predecessors were about church purity, discipline, etc. Nathan, you’re right on all three points. I recommend Mahaney’s Humility and Piper’s God is the Gospel, and CHBC’s Weekenders are a great opportunity to be exposed to a church that seeks to be true to the biblical description of the church. Today, we were discussing the essays in Dever’s “Polity” and were again reminded about how serious our Baptist predecessors were about church purity, discipline, etc.

]]> By: Bruce Ashford http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-1429 Bruce Ashford Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:36:29 +0000 http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=910#comment-1429 Nixon, right on. I should have included Dever's "Deliberate Church" along with the IX Marks text. Haven't read Stetzer's Lost and Found yet. Mike McDaniel and Jay Wooten, thanks for weighing in. Joey Craft, I've got Keller's "Mercy Ministries" on my "to read" shelf. Nixon, right on. I should have included Dever’s “Deliberate Church” along with the IX Marks text. Haven’t read Stetzer’s Lost and Found yet.

Mike McDaniel and Jay Wooten, thanks for weighing in.

Joey Craft, I’ve got Keller’s “Mercy Ministries” on my “to read” shelf.

]]> By: Nathan Akin http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-1364 Nathan Akin Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:23:52 +0000 http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=910#comment-1364 Dr. Ashford, I first want to say thank you so much for taking the time to invest in my life and especially when it comes to this topic. I agree with Mr. Rainey that Church Planting is the hope for North America, and I would add for the world. The Church is God’s chosen vehicle for discipleship, social ministry, mission, future multiplication of the body of Christ through planting more local churches, and more. And I want to echo several of the comments made here. Hammett’s book is a must read. Driscoll’s works are hilarious and very insightful for how we are to be missional, as well as the challenge to navigate between being syncretistic and sectarian. Total Church speaks to something that is lacking in North America, that being community. I believe that it is a must read as well and speaks to a major problem for the North American Church, though I agree with J Reed that there are a few spots that I would not necessarily endorse. In that same light, I would highly recommend all that Hirsch and Frost write. The Forgotten Ways really impacted how I view the church. I do not agree fully with everything they say. At times their ecclesiology seems lacking. But they critique some very important things about the church in the west that we need to hear. And they give some very helpful thoughts on how to engage our communities in an incarnational/missional way. And their thoughts on what they label “Liminality,” “Communitas,” and “Third Places” alone are worth the books The Forgotten Ways and Exiles. I'm looking forward to soon interacting with Neil Cole and the Keller Manual. Nathan Akin Dr. Ashford,
I first want to say thank you so much for taking the time to invest in my life and especially when it comes to this topic. I agree with Mr. Rainey that Church Planting is the hope for North America, and I would add for the world. The Church is God’s chosen vehicle for discipleship, social ministry, mission, future multiplication of the body of Christ through planting more local churches, and more. And I want to echo several of the comments made here. Hammett’s book is a must read. Driscoll’s works are hilarious and very insightful for how we are to be missional, as well as the challenge to navigate between being syncretistic and sectarian. Total Church speaks to something that is lacking in North America, that being community. I believe that it is a must read as well and speaks to a major problem for the North American Church, though I agree with J Reed that there are a few spots that I would not necessarily endorse.
In that same light, I would highly recommend all that Hirsch and Frost write. The Forgotten Ways really impacted how I view the church. I do not agree fully with everything they say. At times their ecclesiology seems lacking. But they critique some very important things about the church in the west that we need to hear. And they give some very helpful thoughts on how to engage our communities in an incarnational/missional way. And their thoughts on what they label “Liminality,” “Communitas,” and “Third Places” alone are worth the books The Forgotten Ways and Exiles.

I’m looking forward to soon interacting with Neil Cole and the Keller Manual.

Nathan Akin

]]> By: Drew Ham http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-1359 Drew Ham Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:35:46 +0000 http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=910#comment-1359 Thank you for the insight gentlemen. I am attempting to comment among those who are much smarter than I. Two books I might add to the discussion: . Breaking the Mission Code by Stetzer & Putman . The Convergent Church by Liederbach & Reid Humbly, Drew Thank you for the insight gentlemen. I am attempting to comment among those who are much smarter than I. Two books I might add to the discussion:
. Breaking the Mission Code by Stetzer & Putman
. The Convergent Church by Liederbach & Reid

Humbly, Drew

]]> By: Josh Reed http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/07/the-church-planters-library-2-north-american-church-planting-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-1347 Josh Reed Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:27:01 +0000 http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=910#comment-1347 One further comment, I really appreciated most of what Chester and Timmis was arguing for in Total Church. Although I think they can be accused of "pendulum swinging" too far in some places, their chapter on evangelism was one of the most helpful things I've read in a while. The Gospel proclaimed must go forth with the Gospel lived out for it to take root. Gospel community... One further comment, I really appreciated most of what Chester and Timmis was arguing for in Total Church. Although I think they can be accused of “pendulum swinging” too far in some places, their chapter on evangelism was one of the most helpful things I’ve read in a while. The Gospel proclaimed must go forth with the Gospel lived out for it to take root. Gospel community…

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