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	<title>Comments on: The Church Planter&#8217;s Library (3): International Church Planting</title>
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		<title>By: JL</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/10/the-church-planters-library-3-international-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-3561</link>
		<dc:creator>JL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-3561</guid>
		<description>I agree that we must ground ourselves in and endoctrinate ourselves with Scripture before we plunge into Luther or Piper or contemporary CP texts. And there may be times when we need to take a step back and limit ourselves to Scripture or the early church fathers for a time.  

But if we limit ourselves to only reading Scripture on the matter of cross-cultural ministry, it is possible to miss out on the wisdom that can come from the larger body of Christ and what insights the Holy Spirit has and is giving other believers through their reading of Scripture. As well as the specific applications in certain cultural contexts and the encouragement that comes from learning what God is doing in different peoples around the world. 

Not arguing a point, just wanting to mention that it is possible to read our own views and bents into Scripture. Sometimes reading what others have written (as well as having lively, loving conversations with other believers) can help us recognize our own blind spots or discover insights we would not have discovered in our personal reading alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that we must ground ourselves in and endoctrinate ourselves with Scripture before we plunge into Luther or Piper or contemporary CP texts. And there may be times when we need to take a step back and limit ourselves to Scripture or the early church fathers for a time.  </p>
<p>But if we limit ourselves to only reading Scripture on the matter of cross-cultural ministry, it is possible to miss out on the wisdom that can come from the larger body of Christ and what insights the Holy Spirit has and is giving other believers through their reading of Scripture. As well as the specific applications in certain cultural contexts and the encouragement that comes from learning what God is doing in different peoples around the world. </p>
<p>Not arguing a point, just wanting to mention that it is possible to read our own views and bents into Scripture. Sometimes reading what others have written (as well as having lively, loving conversations with other believers) can help us recognize our own blind spots or discover insights we would not have discovered in our personal reading alone.</p>
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		<title>By: rynoyak</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/10/the-church-planters-library-3-international-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-1611</link>
		<dc:creator>rynoyak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-1611</guid>
		<description>I would recommend reading one of Elmer&#039;s numerous books entitled &quot;Cross Cultural (fill in the blank)&quot; and one of Hesselgrave&#039;s many books just to get a feel for the ideology of different missiological issues.
A good theology textbook and commentary like Geisler&#039;s &quot;Systematic&quot; and Sailhammer&#039;s &quot;NT Commentary&quot; are great and essential, especially for long-term discipleship.
Getz&#039;s &quot;Elders &amp; Leaders&quot; and &quot;Rethinking the Church&quot; by White are good for dealing with the insanely rampant &quot;traditionalism&quot; in so many international contexts that have some previous Christian presence that gives authority to tradition and man rather than God&#039;s Word.
&quot;The Churches of the New Testament&quot; by McDaniel is ancient, and it gives great overview of the various churches&#039; practices, which lends itself to the issues of &quot;traditionalism,&quot; church planting, and howto/hownotto do things.
&quot;Purpose Driven Church&quot; by Warren gives great help in church formation regarding the 5 purposes/functions and leadership responsibilities, etc: essentially being a good practical ecclesiology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would recommend reading one of Elmer&#8217;s numerous books entitled &#8220;Cross Cultural (fill in the blank)&#8221; and one of Hesselgrave&#8217;s many books just to get a feel for the ideology of different missiological issues.<br />
A good theology textbook and commentary like Geisler&#8217;s &#8220;Systematic&#8221; and Sailhammer&#8217;s &#8220;NT Commentary&#8221; are great and essential, especially for long-term discipleship.<br />
Getz&#8217;s &#8220;Elders &amp; Leaders&#8221; and &#8220;Rethinking the Church&#8221; by White are good for dealing with the insanely rampant &#8220;traditionalism&#8221; in so many international contexts that have some previous Christian presence that gives authority to tradition and man rather than God&#8217;s Word.<br />
&#8220;The Churches of the New Testament&#8221; by McDaniel is ancient, and it gives great overview of the various churches&#8217; practices, which lends itself to the issues of &#8220;traditionalism,&#8221; church planting, and howto/hownotto do things.<br />
&#8220;Purpose Driven Church&#8221; by Warren gives great help in church formation regarding the 5 purposes/functions and leadership responsibilities, etc: essentially being a good practical ecclesiology.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Ashford</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/10/the-church-planters-library-3-international-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-1572</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Ashford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-1572</guid>
		<description>Ryno, good point. Isn&#039;t that ironic? Church planting training often is weak on ecclesiology! 

Kyle, thank you for the suggestions. I&#039;d like to affirm, especially, the Gehring text as the best biblical-theological and historical treatment of churches that meet in houses. The Zdero text is an easy read and helpful for understanding the Norht American house cburch movement. Roland Allen&#039;s books are indispensable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryno, good point. Isn&#8217;t that ironic? Church planting training often is weak on ecclesiology! </p>
<p>Kyle, thank you for the suggestions. I&#8217;d like to affirm, especially, the Gehring text as the best biblical-theological and historical treatment of churches that meet in houses. The Zdero text is an easy read and helpful for understanding the Norht American house cburch movement. Roland Allen&#8217;s books are indispensable.</p>
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		<title>By: Morris Brooks</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/10/the-church-planters-library-3-international-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-1548</link>
		<dc:creator>Morris Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 05:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-1548</guid>
		<description>Doug,

Couldn&#039;t agree with you more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,</p>
<p>Couldn&#8217;t agree with you more.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/10/the-church-planters-library-3-international-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-1493</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 01:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-1493</guid>
		<description>Excellent list. Here are a few more I would recommend.

“Principles and Practice of Indigenous Church Planting” Charles Brock. Brock was a successful international church planter, and this book provides foundational church planting practices based on his many years of experience.

“House Church and Mission: The Importance of Household Structures in Early Christianity” Roger Gehring. Gehring investigates both theological and socio-historical aspects of the missional significance of house churches from the time of Jesus through Paul.

“Indigenous Church” Melvin L. Hodges. This was the book that helped SB Ms finally begin to look closely at indigenous methods.

“Bridges of God: A Study in the Strategy of Missions” Donald A. McGavran. McGavaran is one of our pioneer missiologists. This book is a good introduction to his work and strategy. 

“Customs and Cultures: Anthropology for Christian Missions” Eugene A. Nida. Nida explains the necessity and process of understanding culture in order to share the gospel in appropriate ways.

“Reconnecting God’s Story to Ministry: Crosscultural Storytelling at Home and Abroad” Tom A. Steffen. The majority of the world cannot read. Steffen shows both the importance and the how-to of oral methods in evangelism and church planting.

“Nexus: The World House Church Movement Reader” Rad Zdero. This book contains case studies of some multiplying house churches that have occurred in recent days.

I also recommend two more books by Roland Allen called, “Missionary Principles and Practice” and “The Ministry of the Spirit.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent list. Here are a few more I would recommend.</p>
<p>“Principles and Practice of Indigenous Church Planting” Charles Brock. Brock was a successful international church planter, and this book provides foundational church planting practices based on his many years of experience.</p>
<p>“House Church and Mission: The Importance of Household Structures in Early Christianity” Roger Gehring. Gehring investigates both theological and socio-historical aspects of the missional significance of house churches from the time of Jesus through Paul.</p>
<p>“Indigenous Church” Melvin L. Hodges. This was the book that helped SB Ms finally begin to look closely at indigenous methods.</p>
<p>“Bridges of God: A Study in the Strategy of Missions” Donald A. McGavran. McGavaran is one of our pioneer missiologists. This book is a good introduction to his work and strategy. </p>
<p>“Customs and Cultures: Anthropology for Christian Missions” Eugene A. Nida. Nida explains the necessity and process of understanding culture in order to share the gospel in appropriate ways.</p>
<p>“Reconnecting God’s Story to Ministry: Crosscultural Storytelling at Home and Abroad” Tom A. Steffen. The majority of the world cannot read. Steffen shows both the importance and the how-to of oral methods in evangelism and church planting.</p>
<p>“Nexus: The World House Church Movement Reader” Rad Zdero. This book contains case studies of some multiplying house churches that have occurred in recent days.</p>
<p>I also recommend two more books by Roland Allen called, “Missionary Principles and Practice” and “The Ministry of the Spirit.”</p>
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		<title>By: ryno</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/10/the-church-planters-library-3-international-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-1472</link>
		<dc:creator>ryno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-1472</guid>
		<description>Bruce
Great list! Your previous posts in this series have also been great, and I&#039;ve got several books to purchase and read now from these suggestions.
I&#039;ve been exposed to many different books on the subject of ICP, having gone through years of masters work in missions on campus and on the field.
I would affirm many of these books as being great if not essential works to read through and study critically. I understand Doug&#039;s comment regarding the relative &quot;helpfulness&quot; of the different books. As we have seen in some recent missions methodology books, culture/anthropology books, and other books in the realm of missiology, there is a major need for the reader to be able to deal with the material with a base of knowledge of Scripture. This is not to say that the materials are unusable or worthless: they are indeed helpful and insightful, but the reader must be able to at times wade through or weed through things in them in order to really mine out the nuggets of solid gold. 
In approaching such a major area of study and work as is ICP, because it encompasses so many different subjects, the important things are:
1) Scripture must be at our side in critically reading through any of these subjects.
2) In order to get a good base of the issues and methods and best practices, it is necessary to read the various books and weigh and balance the different points together with Scripture.

P.S. Ecclesiology did seem to be the biggest missing part of my prep for ICP work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce<br />
Great list! Your previous posts in this series have also been great, and I&#8217;ve got several books to purchase and read now from these suggestions.<br />
I&#8217;ve been exposed to many different books on the subject of ICP, having gone through years of masters work in missions on campus and on the field.<br />
I would affirm many of these books as being great if not essential works to read through and study critically. I understand Doug&#8217;s comment regarding the relative &#8220;helpfulness&#8221; of the different books. As we have seen in some recent missions methodology books, culture/anthropology books, and other books in the realm of missiology, there is a major need for the reader to be able to deal with the material with a base of knowledge of Scripture. This is not to say that the materials are unusable or worthless: they are indeed helpful and insightful, but the reader must be able to at times wade through or weed through things in them in order to really mine out the nuggets of solid gold.<br />
In approaching such a major area of study and work as is ICP, because it encompasses so many different subjects, the important things are:<br />
1) Scripture must be at our side in critically reading through any of these subjects.<br />
2) In order to get a good base of the issues and methods and best practices, it is necessary to read the various books and weigh and balance the different points together with Scripture.</p>
<p>P.S. Ecclesiology did seem to be the biggest missing part of my prep for ICP work.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Ashford</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/10/the-church-planters-library-3-international-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-1434</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Ashford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-1434</guid>
		<description>Ken, thanks for weighing in. Piper&#039;s LNBG is a book that I have often pulled off the shelf... cole and hirsch are helpful even for international CPers, you are right. I differ from Hirsch on how he positions his five fold ministry and on a few other things, but have found him of great help in other areas. 

Doug, you make a valid and helpful point. I&#039;m &quot;with you,&quot; at least most of the way. The &quot;church planting&quot; types of books I am recommending should be read in the context of a deep and broad theological, ecclesiological education, as well as a close walk with the Lord. The Puritans are perhaps the most helpful for &quot;calling us back&quot; to reliance upon God... With that said, I still recommend that guys read a few of the contemporary CP texts in order to (1) learn what they can from these books, and (2) practice using their biblical-theological framework for discerning what is healthy and unhealthy missiologically. Thank you for taking the time to read and comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, thanks for weighing in. Piper&#8217;s LNBG is a book that I have often pulled off the shelf&#8230; cole and hirsch are helpful even for international CPers, you are right. I differ from Hirsch on how he positions his five fold ministry and on a few other things, but have found him of great help in other areas. </p>
<p>Doug, you make a valid and helpful point. I&#8217;m &#8220;with you,&#8221; at least most of the way. The &#8220;church planting&#8221; types of books I am recommending should be read in the context of a deep and broad theological, ecclesiological education, as well as a close walk with the Lord. The Puritans are perhaps the most helpful for &#8220;calling us back&#8221; to reliance upon God&#8230; With that said, I still recommend that guys read a few of the contemporary CP texts in order to (1) learn what they can from these books, and (2) practice using their biblical-theological framework for discerning what is healthy and unhealthy missiologically. Thank you for taking the time to read and comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Short</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/10/the-church-planters-library-3-international-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-1419</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Short</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-1419</guid>
		<description>Over my 12 years in church planting since graduating from Southeastern, I have found several of the books listed here helpful and several not-so-much.  However, some time back when attending a conference at Capital Hill Baptist, I heard something interesting that was transformational for my own personal walk and planting experience.  I was told that, when sending out a church planter, Mark Dever insisted that the planter should read no church growth books, but instead simply focus on the Scriptures and getting his theological foundations laid (particularly ecclesiology).  After having a steady diet of church growth/planting material until I was blue in the face, this seemed so...right.  I later discarded many of the books I had collected (including some of those listed above) and replaced them with solid theological works, biographies, sermon collections (particularly that of the Puritans) and commentaries.  Having done this, I found that the difference in my attitude, outlook, and priorities was tangible.  The Puritans revealed to me areas where I was blind to my own self-reliance and convicted me over how often my ministry centered upon man rather than God.  Now, looking back, I&#039;m afraid that many of the books that I had read to &quot;help me&quot; only fed this spiritual sickness.  I share this all not to argue against church growth/planting materials per se (again, I have found some of the books listed here very helpful), but only to provide some food for thought for whatever it is worth.  Blessings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over my 12 years in church planting since graduating from Southeastern, I have found several of the books listed here helpful and several not-so-much.  However, some time back when attending a conference at Capital Hill Baptist, I heard something interesting that was transformational for my own personal walk and planting experience.  I was told that, when sending out a church planter, Mark Dever insisted that the planter should read no church growth books, but instead simply focus on the Scriptures and getting his theological foundations laid (particularly ecclesiology).  After having a steady diet of church growth/planting material until I was blue in the face, this seemed so&#8230;right.  I later discarded many of the books I had collected (including some of those listed above) and replaced them with solid theological works, biographies, sermon collections (particularly that of the Puritans) and commentaries.  Having done this, I found that the difference in my attitude, outlook, and priorities was tangible.  The Puritans revealed to me areas where I was blind to my own self-reliance and convicted me over how often my ministry centered upon man rather than God.  Now, looking back, I&#8217;m afraid that many of the books that I had read to &#8220;help me&#8221; only fed this spiritual sickness.  I share this all not to argue against church growth/planting materials per se (again, I have found some of the books listed here very helpful), but only to provide some food for thought for whatever it is worth.  Blessings.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken McLemore</title>
		<link>http://betweenthetimes.com/2009/07/10/the-church-planters-library-3-international-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-1403</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken McLemore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betweenthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-1403</guid>
		<description>Dr. Ashford,

I have read some of the books listed but not all. I love Piper&#039;s &quot;Let the Nations be Glad&quot;. This book rocked my world and helped me see a broader more biblical view on missions. The others listed also give me some news titles to read for the future.

A few books that I personally like not listed are Alan Hirsch &quot;The Forgotten Ways&quot; and &quot;Organic Church&quot; by Neil Cole.  

While I may not agree solely with everything in these books and they maybe not be aimed solely at Intl CP&#039;s, both books have helped me and our Church planters see a new way of looking at churches. Instead of trying to plant American style churches internationally, we can see a new way of looking at church models that fit a little better in hard to reach places around the globe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Ashford,</p>
<p>I have read some of the books listed but not all. I love Piper&#8217;s &#8220;Let the Nations be Glad&#8221;. This book rocked my world and helped me see a broader more biblical view on missions. The others listed also give me some news titles to read for the future.</p>
<p>A few books that I personally like not listed are Alan Hirsch &#8220;The Forgotten Ways&#8221; and &#8220;Organic Church&#8221; by Neil Cole.  </p>
<p>While I may not agree solely with everything in these books and they maybe not be aimed solely at Intl CP&#8217;s, both books have helped me and our Church planters see a new way of looking at churches. Instead of trying to plant American style churches internationally, we can see a new way of looking at church models that fit a little better in hard to reach places around the globe.</p>
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